Present: Jeremy Mitchell (Chairman)
Chris Griffith
Mark Hagger
Wendy Reynolds
Alastair Robertson
Barry Stevens MBE

George Halford (SACOT Secretary)
Jan Edwards (SACOT Assistant Secretary)
Paul Rogers (Head of ACT Secretariat, Oftel)
Neil Buckley (Oftel) - (after lunch session only)

1. OPENING REMARKS AND APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

1.1 The Chairman opened the 84th meeting and welcomed Paul Rogers, Head of ACT Secretariat, Oftel. Neil Buckley from Oftel would be joining the meeting later to give a presentation on EU Market Reviews.

1.2 Apologies for absence had been received from Kenneth Murray, Peter Wilson and Katherine Phipps.

2. MINUTES OF THE 83RD MEETING HELD ON 18 MARCH 2003

2.1 Wendy Reynolds had submitted her apologies for absence prior to the 83rd meeting although these appeared not have been received by the Secretariat. The Chairman asked that this be noted and otherwise the minutes of the 83rd meeting were approved.

3. MATTERS ARISING FROM THE 83RD MEETING

3.1 Project Allocation

3.1 All Members confirmed that the arrangements for Oftel Project Managers to contact them were operating satisfactorily. As this was now usually the case it was agreed that this item could be dropped as a standing item on the agenda but Members should report if there were indications that they were not being consulted for the projects they had been allocated.

ACTION (Secretary/Members)

4. REPORTS FROM CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS

Chairman's Report

TOS Council 8 April
4.1 The Telecoms Ombudsman Scheme was active and dealing with complaints. Consideration was now being given to the implications of the change from licensing to general conditions of entitlement that would take effect in July. It had been proposed to hold a seminar with internet service providers to consider what needed to be done to encourage their participation in the Otelo scheme.

TAP meeting 15 April
4.2 Minutes of this meeting were still awaited (Secretary's note - now distributed). The main items discussed had been Directory Enquiry legacy numbers where the Chairs had a number of substantive reservations, reflected in the SACOT response (see Agenda Item 9 iii) and on codes of practice where the Chairs felt that Oftel needed to give greater consideration to the criteria against which codes would be assessed to ensure their adequacy. It was noteworthy that the Office of Fair Trading were considering Codes of Practice generally and the need for them to be more rigorously reviewed.

ii Members' Reports

Financial Services Authority - e-Commerce Committee
4.3 Alastair Robertson reported that there had been no further meetings of the FSA e-commerce committee since his last report.

Oftel Committee for Business
4.4 Alastair Robertson reported that he had attended the final meeting of the CfB 'Small Business Task Force'. This had concentrated on how they would wish Ofcom to relate to small businesses and ensure there was an effective dialogue. It was recommended that Ofcom should consider meeting with trade associations throughout the country.

Directory Enquiries Consumer Group
4.5 Alastair Robertson reported that the last meeting had concentrated on reaction to Oftel's consultation document on this topic. There was considerable disquiet amongst both consumer and industry representatives about how the process had been conducted and agreement that had they been involved before the consultation document had been drafted then the recommendations would have been more apposite. There was general agreement that option B was the worst and option C the best but disquiet that the opportunity for discussion was severely curtailed.

Consumer Forum on Communications
4.6 Peter Wilson was not present to report, but see Secretary's report below.

5. SECRETARY'S REPORT

Secretaries' Meeting, Edinburgh 24 January
5.1 SACOT had hosted this meeting, the minutes of which had been circulated. The principal concern had been the lack of contact from Ofcom in relation to staff and resources in each of the non-London based ACTs in view of the clause in the Communications Bill requiring Ofcom to establish an office in each of the home nations. It had been agreed that Paul Rogers, Head of ACT Secretariat, Oftel would write to Ofcom on the subject. The forthcoming workload on responding to EU Market Reviews was also discussed.

· CMA Scottish Forum Broadband Review 13 February
5.2 The Secretary had attended this event which reviewed the current situation in Scotland. There was a presentation from Scottish Enterprise on the Alas project to link 13 business parks in Scotland to broadband. This project has subsequently encountered criticism and delays.

· Consumer Forum for Communications 20 February
5.3 The Secretary attended in place of Peter Wilson. The event was primarily about the Communications Bill and an exchange of views between organisations about those clauses that they wished to see amended. The importance of co-ordinating and supporting common views was stressed when it came to drafting amendments and arranging for peers to table them. This forum intends to meet again in the autumn and obviously sees itself as continuing under the Ofcom regime. The Secretary suggested that the topic of their next meeting should be a review of consumer representation arrangements under Ofcom.

· SCC Chairmen's Group 3 March
5.4 The Secretary had attended and presented the SACOT Chairman's apologies. The Secretary updated the forum on current SACOT concern with regard to the Communications Bill. There had been a review of the SCC Parliamentary Reception that had been held at the Hub. The Secretary relayed SACOT Member's views that while it had been disappointing that so few MSPs attended, the opportunity to network with other consumer organisations had proved extremely useful and a similar event, perhaps annually, would have benefits.

· DTI Briefing on draft Statutory Instruments 4 April
5.5 The Secretary attended this briefing which was concerned with the current round of consultations regarding draft Statutory Instruments which would be needed to implement the EU Directives until such time as the Communications Bill received Royal Assent. These basically reflected the wording in the Bill and maintained as much of the status quo as was consistent with EU requirements. While industry representatives had a number of detailed concerns, the Secretary did not feel that there were significant consumer issues given that the period of hiatus between the implementation of the EU Directive/Statutory Instruments and the passing of the Communication Bill to the statute book should be limited to a matter of months at most, more likely weeks and may not be needed at all if the Act is passed by 25 July.

· Meeting with Unitech 16 April
5.6 The Secretary had met Andrew Scott of Unitech, a company based in Edinburgh which was responsible for issuing comparison leaflets on telcos for Oftel. They were looking for any opportunity to address businesses as to their capabilities and a potential event was discussed. Unitech also currently undertake secretariat duties for the UK Telecoms Forum.

· Secretaries' Meeting Belfast 25 April
5.7 This meeting had reviewed the ACT budgets that generally reflected a 1.8 % increase over the past year. The budget was predicated on a full 12 month period but savings would be anticipated if ACT activity ceased on 31 December. There may, however, be subsequent closure costs dependent on Ofcom arrangements. Paul Rogers had received a response from Ofcom to his letter referred to above. This basically acknowledged the valuable resources of ACTs and stated that Ofcom would be reviewing these very shortly (Secretary's Note - Ofcom visit to SACOT office scheduled for 9 May). The meeting then discussed the SACOT budget. The Chairman thought that a research project to inform Ofcom of consumer needs in Scotland might be useful. Paul Rogers confirmed that a national conference of ACT Members was planned for late in the year. The Chairman suggested that it would be useful to convene a national meeting of consumer organisations, possibly in Glasgow. After discussion this suggestion was endorsed and it was agreed that Alastair Robertson, Barry Stevens, Chris Griffith, together with the Chairman and Secretary should form a sub-group to progress the matter. The Secretary suggested that SACOT might also wish to consider a number of local meetings throughout Scotland to inform consumer organisations of Ofcom arrangements and responsibilities.

ACTION (Sub-group)

6. COMPLAINTS STATISTICS

6.1 Members noted that there had been a steady decline in numbers of complaints over the past year. This was shown in both the Monthly and Quarterly Trends. The appendix section on statistical significance of data was appreciated as was the commentary on issues. Members agreed that this now began to reveal what was happening with Scottish and UK complaints. The Secretary was asked to express the Committee's appreciation to Alistair Cox of Oftel. The Committee wished to receive the statistics earlier than had been the case recently and the Secretary undertook to advise Alistair Cox of SACOT's meeting dates to enable this. Members also wished for a definition of 'privacy' issues to better understand what consumers' concerns were.

ACTION (Secretary)

7. COMMUNICATIONS BILL

7.1 The Chairman had produced a brief for all Scottish peers, and a selection of peers from elsewhere in the UK, which had been issued so that it would be received just prior to the start of the House of Lords Committee Stage. The Chairman of WACT was issuing a similar brief for Welsh peers and NIACT was holding a parliamentary reception for peers from Northern Ireland. The Chairs of NIACT, SACOT and WACT had succeeded in persuading a number of peers to table amendments reflecting the concerns of these ACTs. The three key amendments were a requirement to consult devolved legislatures, to establish statutory national Consumer Panels, and for Consumer Panel Members to be appointed by the Secretary of State rather than by Ofcom. The Chairman felt that even if these amendments were not achieved that ACT lobbying had had a positive influence. The Committee expressed their appreciation to the Chairman for his efforts on behalf of SACOT and the other ACTs. The Secretary was asked to monitor the House of Lords Committee Stage debates and to copy relevant reports to Members.

ACTION (Secretary)

8. OFCOM

8.1 The press notice concerning appointments to the shadow Content Board had been circulated to Members. Mr. Matthew MacIver had been appointed as the Scottish representative to the UK Content Board. Paul Rogers explained that there would be a 'job matching exercise' conducted between June and August which would determine which Oftel employees (e.g. the SACOT Secretariat) would be retained under Ofcom. An Ofcom event had been held for all Oftel staff on 25 March but no invitation had been extended to the SACOT staff.

Consultation document responses for formal endorsement

9. i SACOT Response to Oftel Consultation Document (S29/2003): "Draft Guidelines for Customer Line Identification Display Services and other related services over Electronic Communications Networks"

9.1 The Committee endorsed this response.

ii SACOT Response to DTI Consultation Document (S044/2003): "Draft Numbering Exclusion Order"

9.2 The Committee endorsed this response.

iii SACOT Response to Oftel Consultation Document (S047/2003): "The Future Use of Legacy Directory Enquiry Numbers"

9.3 The Chairman expressed his thanks to Alastair Robertson for his assistance in preparing this response, which was endorsed by the Committee.

iv SACOT Response to DTI Consultation Document (S043/2003): "The Scope of Universal Service Provision"

9.4 After some discussion about geographically averaged prices the Committee endorsed this response.

Consultation documents for discussion

10. i Oftel Consultation Document (S046/2003): "Notification of proposals for the designation of universal service providers and the setting of conditions"

10.1 This document proposed that BT and Kingston should be designated as universal service providers and considered what special conditions should apply. The Committee discussed the guidelines on functional internet access options and agreed that the minimum speed should be 28.8 kilobits/second. Many users would welcome the elimination of DACS lines that would result from the adoption of this standard. The Committee endorsed the need for consultation with community councils in regard the withdrawal of public call boxes but the definition of a 'site' needed to take account of accessibility issues. The Committee also endorsed the requirement to supply local directories.

ii DTI Consultation Document (S059/2003): "Directive on Privacy and Electronic Communications (2003/58/EC)"

10.2 The Committee noted that only 29% of consumers were aware of the Telephone Preference Scheme and thought this was insufficient. Alastair Robertson suggested there was a need to rebrand and relaunch the facility. The implications of 'cookies' concerned the Committee who felt that users should always be informed of what cookies would be loaded and their purpose. However, to prevent downloading of cookies may well have an impact on free services and could, in any case, only be applied to UK based services. The statement about subscribers making informed decisions about being listed concerned the Committee. Given the recent changes in Directory Enquiry Services, research was needed to determine what consumers attitudes and concerns were to being listed, particularly if searching for an address on provision of a telephone number was to be a feature. It was felt this would encourage even more subscribers to become ex-directory than the current 40% and this would further undermine the effectiveness of the service. The Chairman felt that the relationship between subscriber and service provider to allow unsolicited calls needed to be more tightly defined. He also considered the enforcement provisions needed strengthening with 'stop now' powers. The Chairman undertook to draft a response incorporating the Committee's views.

ACTION (Chairman)

iii Oftel Consultation Document (S061/2003): "The Granting of Electronic Communications Code by Oftel"

10.3 It was decided that SACOT would not respond to this consultation.

iv Home Office Consultation Paper (S062/2003): "Access to Communications Data - Respecting Privacy and Protecting the Public from Crime"

10.4 It was agreed that key questions were 'who gives approval?'; 'what criteria would be applied?'; and ' what public accountability would there be?'. Scrutiny of access was required together with a system of approval before access was granted. The Chairman felt that leaving scrutiny to judicial review was too lax while loading the police with additional burdens was not realistic. In the circumstances, he favoured a third party, the Information Commissioner, being tasked to issue approvals in advance of access. The Chairman would respond accordingly.

ACTION (Chairman)

v Home Office Consultation Paper (S063/2003): "On a Code of Practice for Voluntary Retention of Communications Data"

10.5 The Committee was generally content with the conclusions of this consultation but was concerned that the requirements of national security could result in a loophole. The Chairman would respond accordingly.

ACTION (Chairman)

vi Oftel Consultation Document (S064/2003): "Corporate Numbering: a new option for businesses"

10.6 Oftel proposed another group of digits with non-geographic significance. The result would be that some codes would indicate tariffs, some services, some would be corporate while the others had geographic significance. The Committee was concerned that the general public would become increasingly confused. The Secretary mentioned that an Oftel representative was keen to address a forum of business representatives if SACOT could arrange a meeting. He was in the process of trying to arrange such a meeting with the Scottish Forum of the Communication Managers' Association. It was agreed that Committee Members would this helpful and requested the Secretary to proceed to plan for a meeting in June.

ACTION (Secretary)

vii Oftel Consultation Document (S065/2003): "Consultation on the Intelligent Network (IN) Charge for DLE and ST FRIACO"

10.7 It was decided that SACOT would not respond to this consultation.

viii Oftel Consultation Document (S066/2003): "Reviews of Dispute Procedure Schemes"

10.8 The Chairman declared an interest as a Council Member of the Telecom Ombudsman Scheme (Otelo). However, he felt that consumers would generally support the requirement to make accessible approved dispute resolution arrangements. Barry Stevens was worried by the lack of definition of 'promptly' in regard to responding to a dispute but this was for EU Member states to define. SACOT and Otelo experience had shown that responsibility for service problems was not necessarily straightforward to determine. Barry Stevens emphasised that consumers needed to be kept informed as to the progress being made with investigations of their complaints. He was also concerned by the definition of large businesses as having more than ten employees or part-time staff or volunteers. Unless this was equated to Full Time Equivalent staff many very small enterprises would be included. The Chairman undertook to draft a response incorporating the Committee's views.

ACTION (Chairman)

ix Oftel Consultation Document (S070/2003): "Assessing Potential Consumer Savings - A consultation by the DG Oftel on a methodology for measuring consumer savings in telecoms services"

10.9 The Committee had found this consultation interesting and noted that while the cost of switching service providers had been included the investigation costs and skills required had not been considered. Mark Hagger noted that while a comparison study had been carried out on mobiles this had been too complicated to replicate for fixed line services. This was precisely the difficulty faced by consumers. The conclusion should therefore have been not to forego an analysis but to consider further how this could be achieved. There was a huge potential saving to consumers in switching suppliers but this did not feature strongly enough in the conclusions. The Committee considered the conclusions appeared somewhat complacent and were hardly borne out by the argumentation presented in the preceding pages. The Chairman undertook to draft a response incorporating the Committee's views.

ACTION (Chairman)

11. ANY OTHER BUSINESS

11.1 Mark Hagger requested that the Committee receive regular updates on the progress of 'trigger level' for BT to enable exchanges for Broadband services. The Secretary was asked to request the data from BT.

ACTION (Secretary)

11.2 Barry Stevens requested that the Committee receive information regarding broadband developments from Highlands & Islands Enterprise, as he understood current initiatives could be extended to the Orkneys and Shetlands if successful.

ACTION (Secretary)

11.3 The Secretary advised Members that a supply of SACOT Annual Reports was available for them to uplift.

12. DATE OF NEXT MEETING

12.1 Thursday 26 June at 10.30 a.m. at 28 Thistle Street, Edinburgh

13. EU BRIEFING

13.1 Neil Buckley, Oftel, then gave a presentation on the implications of the current round of EU Market Review consultations for ACT Members. This covered the requirement for the reviews, what they covered, what stage had been reached and what was to happen next. The reviews were an EU requirement to meet the Framework Directive that was designed to promote competition, develop the internal market and promote the interests of EU citizens. Markets had to be defined and assessed to determine whether any participant had Significant Market Power (SMP). If there was, what was the remedy to this and if not, then remove regulation thereby promoting competition. Both services and types of market would be covered and 10 weeks were available to respond to each consultation. Currently, UK market definitions were broadly in line with those of the EU but some discussion was needed; the extent of competition/dominance had been identified together with remedies where appropriate.

13.2 As far as the wholesale access, call origination and transit market was concerned BT and Kingston had been found to be dominant in their respective areas and the remedies were equivalent to the current interconnection regime. As for unmetered internet termination, BT no longer has SMP whereas Kingston had in its area. In regard to termination on fixed networks each operator had SMP in relation to its customers. Each of some 250 wholesale international routes was effectively a market and BT was found to have SMP in 121 and Cable & Wireless in 4. 22 Retail markets had been defined in which BT and Kingston were dominant therefore price controls were to remain but with greater flexibility for pricing businesses. Also more flexibility was proposed for business bundling. Oftel perceived the implications for consumers of their proposals as leading to wider choice of service providers in fixed line services, that price controls would be retained and only relaxed if retail competition improved. Competition appeared to be working as regards to International Direct Dialling and in the narrowband internet access market. In leased lines it was clear that BT has SMP in 'terminating' segments while there was more competition on some wholesale trunk routes than others.

13.3 Further Market Review consultations on mobile call termination and wholesale broadband access (ADSL) would be issued shortly.

13.4 Neil Buckley suggested that SACOT should consider which markets were significantly different in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK. The Chairman pointed out that SACOT had suggested to Oftel that market reviews needed to take more account of the 'demand side' and less on the 'supply side' to give a better consumer perspective. Also EU arrangements allowed for sub-national reviews where appropriate and SACOT had argued that this was more than justified for retail fixed access in Scotland. No response had been forthcoming from Oftel to these suggestions. Neil Buckley undertook to refer the matter within Oftel.

13.5 The Chairman thanked Neil Buckley for his presentation that had served to focus the Committee's attention on the aspects they needed to respond to.

Consultation documents for discussion (contd.)

14. i Oftel Consultation Document (S054/2003): "Review of the Fixed Geographic Call Termination Markets"

ii Oftel Consultation Document (S055/2003): "Review of the Wholesale International Services Markets and related remedies"

iii Oftel Consultation Document (S056/2003): "Review of Fixed Narrowband Retail Markets "

iv Oftel Consultation Document (S057/2003): "Review of the Wholesale Unmetered Narrowband Internet Termination Market"

v Oftel Consultation Document (S058/2003): "Review of the Fixed Narrowband Wholesale Exchange Line, Call origination, Conveyance and Transit Markets"

14.1 The Chairman felt that the presentation and discussions had provided enough material for him to formulate draft responses that would be circulated to Members for comment.

ACTION (Chairman/Secretary)

Documents to Note

15. i An internal guide for Oftel staff: "Supporting consumer representatives in regulatory and co-regulatory initiatives" - March 2003.

15.1 The Chairman wished to record the Committee's appreciation of this valuable statement.

ii Oftel Statement (S069/2003): "Oftel Management Plan 2003-04"

15.2 The Chairman highlighted that SACOT views had been recorded.

iii DTI Response to the Consultation on Designating Bodies to make Super Complaints"

15.3 The Chairman had written to enquire whether public bodies such as SACOT would be included in the definition of bodies entitled to raise a super complaint.